[F500] Belt Webbing Article in Sports Car

[Lindsey, Mark]

The last line in the article states the safety committee is looking for
comments.  Enough said.  Write 'em.

-----Original Message-----
From: McAbee, Chuck [mailto:Chuck_McAbee at csx.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 1:14 AM
To: 'f500 at f500.org'
Subject: RE: [F500] Belt Webbing Article in Sports Car


Mark -

I concur whole heartedly!  No where in the article was it listed what level
of strength was needed to successfully restrain a body at what level of
stress.  Nowhere was it listed what the Club's incidence of failure of
restraint systems has been....furthermore, if this 'snow job' is accurate in
it's "factual representations" that brings into question the belt systems in
our daily drivers that are exposed to their most demanding test daily
(especially here in Florida - windows closed and 130 degree or hotter
interior temperatures).  I haven't seen the NTSB or other agency suggest the
belts in all cars in the country be replaced every two years!

This is an outright gouge attempt by the belt industry to gain a little more
product turnover.

With my normal racing season consisting of 8 to 10 weekends with 3 to 4
sessions per weekend; it would mean that my belts would have been used at
total of 80 times before being considered trash.  I have never considered
belts to be a consumable race car part like brake pads and tires but I guess
it is coming.

Chuck McAbee
SEDIV #16

-----Original Message-----
From: Lindsey, Mark [mailto:mlindsey at Baskervill.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 15:48
To: 'f500 at f500.org'
Subject: [F500] Belt Webbing Article in Sports Car


Did anyone read the article concerning the reduced strength of belt webbing
over time?

I'm surprised it didn't start a discussion string on this site.  I saw
several inconsistencies in the article that appear to be suspect and another
item that makes me think I won't be using Simpson anymore.

First, testing a material in the Florida sun has always been a valid test in
my mind.  As an architect, I almost always find products are tested for
solar degradation in FL or AZ.  We also break a lot of things to failure to
see how they perform.  Breaking to failure rarely corresponds with required
strength.  It simply provides us the opportunity to see how far beyond
require strength the product is.

The SFI and FIA have different standards.  What two bodies don't?  We got to
see tests regarding the strength loss in the webbing.  They show two
separate tests (in boxes) and both tests come up with a different % of
strength loss.  (Be careful not to confuse the one with cuts in the
webbing.)  I don't disagree with the strength loss, but what I want to know
is what is the "ultimate" strength required of the webbing to perform as
needed?  Did the material perform properly at the tested age with that
industry's standard?  Not once was there a failure to perform within design
strengths mentioned as an example.

I also would want to know if there have been any documented crash failures
of a properly installed (and worn) belt system.  If so, what are the details
on the crash and how old where the belts?  No evidence that the 5 year rule
was not sufficient was ever provided.  (Let's discount the Earnhardt crash
for discussion.  I've read his belt was improperly installed and heard he
wore his belts loose so he could turn his body after neck surgery during the
off season left his neck stiff.)

The article almost set us up for expecting us to replace the webbing every
two years without any real evidence there is a problem.  (Too many attorneys
maybe?)

The article also mentioned that Simpson has stopped rewebbing the hardware
on existing belts and it remains to be seen if others followed suit.  This
is suspect.  The hardware on the belts is probably one of the least stressed
pieces of metal in the entire car. I can think of hundreds of parts that
receive significantly more stress than the belt hardware.  

What's next?  Will Wilwood will only sell calipers with the pads and not
simply the pads themselves?  Rotax comes as a long block when you only need
a piston?  I guess I'll be going to another manufacturer when my 

I want to be safe in my car, but without real evidence of actual failures or
belts not providing required ultimate strengths between 2 and 5 years, I see
this simply as a ploy by the belt manufacturers to sell more belts AND
hardware.

The safety committee solicits your opinion in the last sentence.


Mark Lindsey
KBS Mk5



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