[F500] Halon Warning - Please Read!

Thu Jul 14 08:02:35 MST 2005

In the canister it is under pressure to maintain its liquid state.  When it
is released from the canister it converts to gas and hence absorbs heat from
its surroundings, making things cold. Coming out of the canister is it
liquid in the form of halon vapor which very quickly converts to halon gas.
It is the rapid absorption of the heat to help it convert from a vapor to a
gas that causes things to freeze.  Marshall's frost bite or frozen leg it
the result of the halon taking the heat out of the surrounding air, clothes,
skin, and deeper leg tissue during this process.  Remember that the volume
of gas as it expands in the air is huge compared to being confined in the
canister. So most likely a lot of vapor/gas was directed at his leg and it
needed a lot of heat to do the conversion.  I'll bet that Marshall even had
frost on the pant leg of his suit. As we all know frost bite, especially
deep frost bite is not a pleasant thing and can do lots of damage to the
tissue.  I only hope he is OK and it wasn't too deep.

The nozzles on our fire systems each have 3 or 4 orifices and we have 2 to 4
nozzles which spread the escaping gas over a much wider area so that we are
not normally at risk of frost bite unless we have ourselves right up against
or very close to the nozzle.

Eric Dean

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Reinhardt" <ny_racer_xxx at yahoo.com>
To: <f500 at f500.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [F500] Halon Warning - Please Read!

> Eric, so then if the Halon escapes as a gas, (as intended) you not likely
or less likely to get the "burn" as Marshall did?  So the problem isn't the
Halon or the nozzle location, but how it's released, as I believe Marshall
first said about leaks in the system.
>
>  I also remember from Physics 101, that if you compress a gas you can make
it turn states.  Compressed Halon in the canister is liquid, and very
cold!!!
>
>
>
>  Marshall, get well soon, and thanks for the eye opener, this is
definitely worth discussing..
>
>
>
> Chris Reinhardt
>
> Eric Dean <redvette at ewdean.com> wrote:
> It's all about the energy required for matter to change its state between
> solid, liquid and gas. In order for a liquid to change state into a gas
> requires a tremendous change in the activity of the molecules, i.e. energy
> or heat. It absorbs that heat from whatever is close to it at the time of
> evaporation causing the near matter (Marshall's leg) to get very cold.
>
> The inverse is also true, for example you have probably heard that a steam
> burn is worse than a hot water burn. It's true because when the steam
> returns to a water state on contact with something else such as skin it
> releases a tremendous amount of heat to change state back to water.
>
> The amount of calories necessary for this change of state is much greater
> than the amount of calories necessary for each degree of temperature
change
> without changing the state of matter from solid to liquid to gas and visa
> versa. Yet it only take one degree to change the state of matter. Making
> the understand a little more difficult is the effect of pressure and it's
> relationship with temperature and the state of matter, which is a lesson
for
> another time.
>
> Recollections of Physics Class
> Eric Dean
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Reinhardt"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [F500] Halon Warning - Please Read!
>
>
> > Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's the Halon in liquid
> form that causes the frost bite/cold burn and not in the gaseous state?
The
> leak as describe was a mass leak that allowed the Halon to escape as a
> liquid and was not "sprayed" out, as should be the case through the
nozzle.
> >
> > Chris Reinhardt
> >
> >
> > JOE PALMER wrote:
> > Marshall et. al.,
> >
> > I have absolutely no experience in these matters, but have the same
basic
> > set-up as most on this list . . . nozzle pointing right at me. However,
> the
> > nozzle is kinda behind the steering wheel far to the left attached to
the
> > front hoop. I imagine these nozzles are designed to spray, even
"atomize"
> > the halon as much as possible and that would decrease the chances of
cold
> > burns. This as opposed to a leak in plumbing which might "stream" the
> halon
> > to a single spot.
> >
> > Just looking for your thoughts and the list's, before I get into
> > re-plumbing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Joe
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [F500] Halon Warning - Please Read!
> >
> >
> > > Richard -
> > >
> > > I am responding on-list, since I think these points are worth public
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > <<> that I would not experience the same problem you had. However I do
> have
> > > a nozzle just ahead of and under the dash that is pointed at me. The
> > > extinguisher system did not come with any instructions on how to
> > > install it. Tech people at the track have never said anything about
> > > how it is installed, so I just figured that I had done a good job at
> > > it.>>>
> > >
> > > I have the same basic experience. Tech seems to be focused on the fire
> > > bottle having enough agent in it to put out the fire. Frankly, if this
> > > had been a full-on, gas-fed fire, I would prefer to have had a bit of
> > > cold than to not have the bottle work. Your point is why I felt it
> > > necessary to mention this on-list and get the word out.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind, though, that if you have a leak at your bottle behind a
> > > hard panel, you won't have full effectiveness in your targeted areas,
> > > even if it doesn't result in a direct cold-burn injury.
> > >
> > >
> > > <<> know you had a fire if it was behind you ?>>>
> > >
> > > The root cause of the fire could be the subject of a completely
> > > different thread. Bottom line, though, was that I had a slight oil
> > > leak that had coated the bottom of the engine compartment. I'm not
> > > sure how it ignited, but I have some ideas. When I pulled into line to
> > > be weighed, I noticed a LOT of smoke, but no flame. After looking
> > > around the car for a few minutes and not seeing any actual flame, my
> > > wife showed up, looked under the body and told me I was on fire. She
> > > then pointed to the flames in the bottom of the engine bay, under the
> > > pull-starter area (this should be a clue to those who were at the
> > > event). After unbelting, I twisted around and visually verified the
> > > fire, hit the button, and exited the car.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps clarify the event.
> > >
> > > MM
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