[F500] F500 on DSR site

mmauneyjr at aol.com mmauneyjr at aol.com
Wed Oct 12 10:14:55 MST 2005


<<<i also think we would have no problem stuffing 4 strokes into the 
current f5 cars, there are a lot of options here without a major 
overturn of the f5 class >>>

Let's all slow down a bit here.  There are a couple of issues with 
going to the bike engines that haven't been mentioned.

1)  The higher speeds possible with the higher power and integral 
gearbox would generate forces on our suspensions that they weren't 
designed for.

2) Additional weight will also stress the chassis more than the current 
implementation.  The current 300-lb difference between FF and F5 is a 
really big deal, as evidenced by the higher cost of FF and the higher 
speeds of F5.

3) If we adopted the wings as in Formula Four, we would be adding even 
more stress to the suspension, as well as greatly increasing tire wear.

The only fix for these issues is $$$, coupled with time to refine the 
designs.  I, for one, would prefer to keep F500 as close to the current 
implementation as possible.

If SCCA wants to have a 1000-1200 lb car with a bike engine, why not 
let them either change the engine for FF or resurrect the old FC rules 
in Continental?

Marshall Mauney



-----Original Message-----
From: dtm <dtm at ameritech.net>
To: f500 at f500.org
Sent: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:39:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [F500] F500 on DSR site

well it sounds to me like they would like something close to the F4 
class in canada its almost exactly whats beeing described, i wuld 
personally love to go that route but if thats the case they need to 
just add it and let F5 phase itself out over time as we all know a lot 
of the fv's are disappearing and if anything needs to be replaced i 
think that would be the class to do,i think running f4 and f5 together 
would be a hell of a show, on the other hand i also think we would have 
no problem stuffing 4 strokes into the current f5 cars, there are a lot 
of options here without a major overturn of the f5 class 
for those of you who have never seen one up close follow this link 
http://www.formulafour.com/default.htm 
i had the pleasure of racing with a couple of fine fella's from ontario 
a few years back, these machines were running on corn juice and i was 
drooling from the sound, and would have done anything to drive one. 
Dan Hester 
 
----- Original Message ----- From: "Art" <qreshadow at bellsouth.net> 
To: <f500 at f500.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:03 PM 
Subject: RE: [F500] F500 on DSR site 
 
> The fact that SCCA has been trying to get rid of our cars for a 
number of 
> years is not a rumor. They don't like the sound, they don't like 
CVTs, the 
> fact that they are 2 cycle snowmobile derived, and that they are 
getting > as 
> fast as they are could be added to someone's list also. 
> 
> They want a "real" car for marketing and other purposes. That "real" 
car 
> would be one with a MC engine, a gearbox and a suspension. The 
proposal > that 
> Rusty made at the party is not just Rusty talking, it is SCCA. They 
want > to 
> turn F5 into another SCCA formula car fiasco, with all the inherent 
costs 
> and problems that we have seen time and time again when we have gone 
down 
> that path. 
> 
> This message was aimed at the manufacturers who were asked to embrace 
this 
> concept and build a car(s). To the best of my knowledge, it was not > 
received 
> with a standing ovation. The discussion quickly centered on costs, 
which 
> would be 1 1/2 to 2 X what we have now for a new car. And that 
doesn't 
> consider what it would cost, or even if it would be possible, to 
convert 
> current cars. 
> 
> This is your club. Don't let the higher ups in the food chain 
obsolete > your 
> vehicle investment or increase your participation costs for having 
fun. If 
> and when this issue becomes more then just words, I hope the F5 
membership 
> will react appropriately and not sit on their hands. 
> 
> Art 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: f500-bounces+qreshadow=bellsouth.net at f500.org 
> [mailto:f500-bounces+qreshadow=bellsouth.net at f500.org] On Behalf Of 
dtm 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:23 AM 
> To: f500 at f500.org 
> Subject: Re: [F500] F500 on DSR site 
> 
> I agree that is an interesting discussion, it could be just a rumor, 
maybe 
> it isn't, I will say in either case it wouldn't surprise me at all as 
lap 
> times in the F500 field continue to get lower and lower and even 
start to 
> pass the lap times of what some call "real race cars". 
> I suppose a request to the scca as of thier intentions on this matter 
be 
> initiated. Pardon my negativity but as i have stated in the past no 
one > ever 
> thought that this class would be posting the speeds and lap times 
that it 
> does , but i am sure when the major changes to the class come it may 
not > be 
> an even or comparable trade off, it will be designed to reduce the 
speed > and 
> overall performace of this class, I would expect minimum weight to 
far 
> exceed the hp and such, the fact that we have stayed with an engine 
size 
> that is not common among different manufacturers is proof alone, a 
simple 
> increase in hp to an engine size that is competitive between > 
manufacturers, 
> would do the job but thats not how it comes around, as you will 
notice the 
> "rumor" thats what im calling it at the moment says a spec chassis 
spec 
> wheels etc you can bet for that extra 100cc's there will be an 
increase in 
> minumum weight of about 2or300 pounds. it isnt about improving, it 
isnt 
> about the class itself, its about a class of glorified go carts 
surpassing 
> what I called earlier the "real race cars" The proof of what I am 
stating > is 
> coming around a little at a time, the 494 weight penalty probably 
will not 
> go away and with the lap times from the runoffs im awaiting a weight 
> increase to the entire class.instead of dropping the penalty I think 
it > will 
> come to all cars will have to weigh in to the new weight, I hope I am 
> wrong 
> , but the small changes that get made to this class are beeing driven 
by 
> emotioneering and politics rather than, affordability, class input 
etc. > The 
> simple fact that you can spend 40-60k on a race car and get your ass 
> whooped by an F500 should tell you its just a matter of time before a 
> strategy to supress is put into action, they wont come out and 
obviously 
> just say the cars are too fast and we cant have that so we will 
replace > the 
> class and "build in" our measures to even it out. 
> those are just my opinions....may sound a bit radical to some but 
take a 
> good look at rules changes in the past and the entire history of the 
> class. 
> 
> Dan Hester 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <dogill80 at sbcglobal.net> 
> To: <f500 at f500.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:48 AM 
> Subject: Re: [F500] F500 on DSR site 
> 
> 
>> Remove the "<ht" from the end of the URL string 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gil Osenburg" 
<kargo at comcast.net> 
>> To: <f500 at f500.org> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:00 AM 
>> Subject: Re: [F500] F500 on DSR site 
>> 
>> 
>>> Couldn't get into this site - what's the main address ? 
>>> Dad 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Neale Osenburg" 
<nealeweston at msn.com> 
>>> To: "Formula 500" <f500 at www.f500.org> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:49 AM 
>>> Subject: [F500] F500 on DSR site 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > Interesting discussion about F500 on the DSR Forums. 
>>> > 
>> 
> 
http://p081.ezboard.com/fdsrforumcarbuilding.showMessage?topicID=735.topi
c<h 
> t 
>>> > 
>> 
tp://p081.ezboard.com/fdsrforumcarbuilding.showMessage?topicID=735.topic>
 
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